Land Raider Crusader vs Land Raider Redeemer



I've been recently running a Land Raider Redeemer and been very impressed with it. I used to use a Crusader, but those flamestorm cannons on the Redeemer are just deadly! I thought I'd do a comparsion.

Land Raider Crusader

Like the normal Land Raider pattern the Crusader is armour value 14 all the way around and is also the same points cost, 250. It also has the same two specials rules as well; power of the machine spirit and assault vehicle but thats where the differences end to the original pattern.

Instead of lascannons the Crusader carries two hurricane bolter weapons, these are basically three twin-linked bolters. The standard heavy bolter is also replaced with a twin-linked assault cannon and in addition frag assault launchers are on the front, which counts as any model disembarking as having frag grenades.

The Crusader is a anti infantry unit which can deal 6 bolter shots (3 from each sponson) from 24" away which goes hand in hand with the same distance the assault cannon can fire. Though to get the most out the sponsons you will need to be within 12" to rapid fire. And if I am correct, as the Crusader moves you cannot fire 24" and only fire 12", so you need to get close to bring the hurricane bolters to maximum fire power or possibly spend a turn moving in order to fire them the 24" range.

While the Crusader can bring a fire amount of fire power it also isn't that brilliant. Any unit if cover will get a save and they're just standard bolters bringing most of the fire power, which is ap5. Most things will get a save and definately get a cover save as well.

Another extra is the Crusader can carry 16 models. This is probably a bit too much as terminators mostly tend to come in squads of 5 and if you throw 2 special characters in you've got a total of 7, which terminator armours counts as 2 models for transport so 14 in total. Though the Crusader does have more transport capacity compared to the other two variants.

Land Raider Redeemer

Like the Crusader and the standard pattern Land Raider the Redeemer has the same armour values along with the two specials rules; power of the machine spirit and assault vehicle.

The Redeemer has exchanged its lascannon sponsons for flamestorm cannons, these are a flamer weapon which spews out S6 AP3 death. Like the Crusader the heavy bolter has been exchanged for a assault cannon and frag assault launchers are added too.

The flamer template is roughly 9" long so to get the Redeemer into the action you need to spend a few turns moving, though once its in range it can be deadly. The ap3 will mince anything including power armour and as its a flamer weapon allows no cover saves, throw in the goodness of wouding T4 or below on a 2+ and spelling instant death for T3 models - nasty!

One problem with the flamestorm cannons is how it fires. If you move up to a unit the cannons will obivously only hit which is in frnot of the Land Raider, but at the side if that makes sense. So you're going to have this row of troops directly in front of the Land Raider's doors which will be untouched by the templates. Also as the templates are 9" you might not get a whole great deal of the template covering, one reason is because roughly about 1/4 - 1/3 of the template is alongside the Land Raider's side hull. Second reason is if you plan to assault you need to leave room to bail your unit out.

The Redeemer's transport capacity 12 models in total, which for models in terminator armour allows to get 6 inside. This is reasonable considering most terminator units are in units of 5 and then throw in a character onto of that which brings the total to 6.

One final extra thing about the Redeemer is its point value, which is a slim 10 points cheaper than the Crusader and standard Land Raider. If you're running a Land Raider which is 250 or costing for one at 250, then the Redeemer will be that slight cheaper and allow you to get in a few extras of wargear for the unit (if you wanted). A 10 point multi melta is always a added bonus :)

Summary

Both the Crusader and Redeemer are both mainly anti infantry units and both need to get up close to deliver the hurt, the Crusader can lie back a bit but won't bring its full fire power to arms.

The Crusader has that little extra transport room, and as its hurricane bolters are S4 you can move and fire them as defensive weapons. So if you move 6" in a Crusader you can fire both hurricane bolters (a vehicle moving 6" can fire ALL defensive weapons) along with 2 other weapons as power of the machine spirit allows you to fire one more weapon than normal.

A impressive, but costly setup for a Crusader would be the added multi melta and possibly a storm bolter. Move just 6" and you can fire ALL weapons, thats a lot of shots.

The Crusaders slightly bad points are that it needs to be within 12" to use those hurricane bolters to full effect, this isn't so much a problem as you want to assault but a tank which can move and defend itself is nice. Also the hurricane bolters don't bring that much extra fire power than a 5 man Space Marine combat squad, and cover saves can be taken against them and only ap5 so not a lot will be worried about a Crusader.

The Redeemer's flamestorm cannons are just awesome in my opinion. Sure they're 9" but you need to get the Crusader within 12" anyway as mentioned. S6 AP3 with no cover saves seriously hurts and Space Marines fear it. In a recent game I used the flamestorm cannons to instant death a Imperial Guard Heavy Weapons team which was in cover, worked a treated. Players don't like not getting a save, particularly when they're in cover.

As the Redeemer is slightly cheaper you can splash out on more wargear on it to make it upto the Crusaders point cost. Throw in the must multi melta and possible a storm bolter and you're looking at 260 points and you can fire the storm bolter if you move up to 6" as its a defensive weapon.

The Redeemers weak points is its range, like the Crusader. If you going for hordes because the placements of the flamestorm cannons anything directly in front of the Redeemer will be untouched, but that shouldn't matter too much as a terminator squad will be possibly assaulting.



All in all I would go with the Redeemer. Both are close range tanks and the Redeemer's nasty ap3 just allows you to mow through any saves apart from 2+. The Crusader can be used as a good fire base, but getting cover saves from it and I've used it several times before and when you gun a unit down and they make most the saves its annoying. Redeemer doesn't have none of this.

What do you like the best, Redeemer or Crusader?

7 comments:

eriochrome said...

The hurricane bolters can still fire 3 shots each at 24 inches when you move since they are mounted on a vehicle. The multimelta is a great addition since it can be used with machine spirit for anti armor/MC while the other 3 weapons target infantry.

Problem with the the Redeemer is that mounting of the Flamestorm cannons. They cannot target the same unit really so one essentially is always using the machine spirit so the multimelta is a less appealing upgrade.

Mercer said...

Interesting comments.

I thought the hurricane bolters would only rapid fire if moves? I know troops inside can only rapid fire if the transport moved.

The Redeemer is good if you have a unit spread out across the width of the Land Raider. If not then its going to be like you said.

Farmpunk said...

as a GK player, the LRC is gold. It's the nice fit of anti-infantry, and a mobile Multi-melta. plus, the GK LRC can move 12" and fire it's hurricanes, then POtMS the Multi-melta or it's Heavy3 non-rending Assault cannon.

I've had it mow down ork hordes all by itself, leaving the 10GK's and attached Bro-Captain and Elite Inquisitor in termie Armor wondering where all the assault fun went.

The redeemer, I'm not completely sold on the flamer sponsons. When they're good, they're good, but they're hard to get to fire both of them.

If I played normal marines, I might feel a bit more mixed, but for my DH's, I'm perfectly happy with the Crusader.

Dverning said...

BRB, page 58 "the normal penalties of movement on
shooting rapid fire and heavy weapons do not apply – when fired from a vehicle"

So a Crusader can either fire 3x at 24" or 6x at 12".

Also, a Flamer template is 8".

I prefer the Crusader myself, as I see Land Raiders as mobile bunkers first and fire platforms second. The extra Transport capacity gives me more guys charging down the ramp, an investment I like.

Mercer said...

Farmpunk is the G-K LRC any different to the normal Space Marine one?

Thanks for the page reference Dverning 8)

Farmpunk said...

The GK LRC is 5more points than the SM one so, 255pts), with E. Armor, and M-Melta included. The Assault cannon is Heavy3 non-rending. The Hurricanes state they can always be fired in the codex.

those are the differences. it's an older version of similar tank. thus, the A. cannon is the old version, and the different rules for Hurricane bolters.
I like moving the full distance, and still being able to fire hurricanes, and 1 other weapon.

Raptor1313 said...

I gotta say I like the Crusader more.

The Redeemer's flamers are just tougher to use. I mean, I like the mental image of rolling up to a line, nuking troops on either side with machine-spirit flamers, and then fire off its cargo of TH/SS terminators.

The crusader just trades off the graphic effectiveness of S6 AP3 flamers for reliablity with the hurricane bolters. I'd probably skip the top-mounted storm bolter, but I'd take the multi-melta.

The big difference? I don't have to court melta range as aggressively with the Redeemers. USing the flamestorm template IS pretty much saying 'MELTA MEEEEE!' Shooting someone at range with all the bolters isn't.

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